Thursday, February 01, 2007

legislating morality

I heard a soundbite on yesterday’s news that made me wonder. There is a big tussle going on about casinos and whether they can or should be used to bring money to the area. The radio played a clip of some guy who said that “legislation has already settled the issue of morality.” As it relates to gambling, why would anyone say such a thing? To what extent, if any, can right and wrong or good and evil be determined on Capitol Hill?
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I may not be able to participate much in this discussion, as I will be packing tonight for a weekend seminar.

43 comments:

Jen2 said...

Ha!
Well, it seems that our govenment started out on the right foot.....basing our laws on the truths of scripture....(much Judaic law)
Even bankruptcy laws! (you can only file every 7 years....ahem....where do they think that came from?)

Anycrux, now, as long as they don't mandate SIN - I have to go along with a great statement that I heard awhile back (can't remember who said it)

"When Washington was president, people were sinning, dying and going to hell.....when Clinton was president - people were sinning, dying and going to hell.....and now even still - regardless of who God puts in control of our govenment, people will continue to sin, die and go to hell."

Which to me says that we shouldn't let our hearts fret over the liberals who may gain office or "air time" or power.....or say that SINFUL ACTS are NOW LAWFUL in the USA. (ie...abortion, homosexuality etc etc)
Be angry and do not sin. Let the corruption of our nation spur us on all the more - making the best use of our time because the days are evil.

Mark Goodyear said...

First, I just want to say that I'm using my $100.00 to help my wife teach a seminar in our community about college admissions. I'll post more about it as I know details.

To this post: Of course, legislation can't settle the issue of morality. It just gives us more laws.

Our society needs laws to help us negotiate power and regulate economies and maintain stability and all that government stuff. It's important, but it's not my passion.

When we mistake external laws for our internal moral compass, we can easily fall into the trap of legalism. We become white washed tombs full of dead bones.

Spiritually, no one needs more law. We need grace. We need Jesus.

my wits end said...

Mark Goodyear wrote, “Spiritually, no one needs more law. We need grace. We need Jesus.”

May I add an “AMEN” to that!

L.L. Barkat said...

Well, here's a thought. Capitol Hill is really made up of people. So, to the extent that any of us can determine right and wrong, good and evil, they may be able to also.

Pete Juvinall said...

Ultimately, I think the answer is a big 'no' - capitol hill, along with any other organization has no ability to determine morality because they simply can't. Similar in idea, corporations don't have an ability to do moral judgements because it just isn't in their ability to do so.

When you give a decision or thought to a bunch of people the morality tends to get thrown out, IMO, because different opinions factor in.

Craver VII said...

Can we say that law does not have the power to establish right and wrong? How are moral guidelines to be determined? ...Not discerned, but given forth, authoritatively proclaimed? Where does that come from?

jazzycat said...

Secular morality can and is determined on Capitol Hill all of the time.... Secular morality changes. Some things that were not moral 50 years ago, are moral today by the secular and government. Example: homosexuality.

Christian ethics do not change. This view is considered intolerant, rigid, judgemental and so on by secular society.

Morality in a culture changes. Christian ethical standards are unchanging.

Jen2 said...

Hrrrumph to avoid legalism as far as external laws...STILL though secular society NEEDS laws - or anarchy would ensue.

Now they are changing the interpretations of laws that were pretty straight forward for so long - simply because our culture is losing morality day by day.

It's a shame that in our culture it is a greater sin to hurt someone's feelings with TRUTH than it is to commit adultery.

Blessed are those who are greived by what they see, just as Lot was.

So we pray -Come Lord Jesus, Come.

For now... said...

Did Craver say he was going to away this weekend? Is he leaving us alone on his blog? Any ideas?

Llama Momma said...

Hmmm...what should we talk about? Anybody know any funny stories? Maybe we should call Mrs. Craver and see what she's doing this weekend!

For now... said...

Hey Craver was that you I saw wearing a Colts jersey?

Llama Momma said...

Hey, For Now -- what are you making for dinner tonight?

For now... said...

I don't know. Usually on Saturday it is something easy. Like going out!! How about you?

Llama Momma said...

I don't know, either, but I was at Costco today and it was totally CRAZY! I think I might have seen Craver there in that Colts jersey, though. Maybe we could go to his house for dinner?

For now... said...

I bet it was crazy. I thought I saw Craver with a Colts jersey on too. What's up with that? Does he think no one is noticing him?

Llama Momma said...

I'm thinking about making pot roast. What was that pot roast recipe you were telling me about?

And Craver really should stop meandering around town in that jersey...

For now... said...

Oh that recipe, that is a good one! I'll get it for you! I know Craver inthat jersey - he's going to cause a ruckus!

Llama Momma said...

Doesn't Craver volunteer at a clothing pantry? Couldn't he get a new jersey there? Something a little less offensive?

For now... said...

Here's the recipe, it is actually Roast Beef. Hey Craver feel free to share this with the Mrs.

Roast Beef with Gravy
2 lb boneless beef sirloin tip roast
1/4 cup flour, divided
1 envelope onio soup mix
1 envelope brown gravy mix
1 cup cold water.


rub roast with 1/2 the flour,
place beef in crock pot, in a bolw combine soup, gravy mix, 1/2 flour and water, stir until blended
pour over roast
cover and cook 3-4 hours until meat is tender

Enjoy!!

Llama Momma said...

Hey that looks great...but what's a bolw???? I don't think I have one of those...

For now... said...

No No No!! Not a Bowel! Oh please not that! Don't mix it there .It's a bowl! A bowl I tell you!

Llama Momma said...

Oh a BOWL! I've got that. Let's not even talk about bowels...ever since my surgery things have been a little...oh never mind...

For now... said...

Oh yeah! The surgery, how are "things"?

For now... said...

Hey, llama? Llama? You still there?

Llama Momma said...

I had to go lay down for awhile...you know, I just had surgery. :-p

I feel like spitting, but I don't know why.

For now... said...

Oh, I hope you are feeling better.

Spitting, huh, wonder why you feel like spitting. Well you could just go ahead and spit at Craver since he is walking around wearing that Colts jersey!

For now... said...

Ok, dinner tonight, we just ordered a pizza. Too cold to go out! Hubby is going to pick it up! WooHoo!

For now... said...

Hey! Hubby just saw Craver over by the pizza place with a Colts jersey on!

Llama Momma said...

Mmmmm...pizza sounds good. I just took a batch of homemade soft pretzels out of the oven. I'm thinking that would make a pretty good dinner tonight! :-)

For now... said...

Hubby say those pretzels sound GODD! He said you should put some melted cheese on them!

For now... said...

Uh-oh! Is that Craver? Is he back? I just saw some guy in a Colts jersey and he looks just like Craver! I think he's back from his "seminar"!

Llama Momma said...

Uh-oh...we're in trouble now!

Llama Momma said...

Do Colt's fans have a sense of humor? I sure hope so...

Llama Momma said...

Oh, just one more question....what's the difference between "roast beef" and "pot roast"? I thought they were the same thing?

For now... said...

Well, I'm not much of a cook so I really don't know what the difference is. Maybe Craver can ask the Mrs.

clc said...

craver,
your blog has been hijacked by suburban moms. i repeat, your blog has been hijacked, please await further instructions.

For now... said...

Hey!! Maybe Craver isn't back from his "seminar". Anybody want to play? I know it's COLD outside, but this could be fun!

(:-)

Martin Stickland said...

The super casinos are coming to the UK! I suppose the fat cats will get fatter, the tax man will get richer and the poor folk will get poorer and deeper in debt hoping to strike gold and get out of poverty.

Apart from that I suppose the slot machine lights will be very pretty!

Craver VII said...

For now… You’ve played quite enough. Meanwhile, I was out, slaving, enduring uninterrupted conversations, eating tasty meals with fancy desserts, listening to some really bright people as they imparted helpful information to home educators.

Yup, I definitely agree with you Martin, your comments are right on the money!

It’s too bad I didn’t get to do more dialog on this with y’all, but I was hoping we would arrive at something like this:

Our politicians are hardly pillars of morality. They probably don’t have the most stellar record of demonstrating the ability to discern right from wrong. How then can they draft laws to establish a moral code? Partisan divisions and constituent interests make this nearly impossible. My opinion is that they are NOT do decide or establish what is right and wrong, but to enforce morality as it is defined or generally accepted by our supposedly civilized society. And a society is “civilized” only as much as it adheres to the moral code written by God Himself. Thou shalt not murder, steal or lie… those were all God’s ideas, even if they are followed (albeit loosely) by the unholy masses. Again, God does not give our magistrates the authority to create morality, but the responsibility to uphold it according to what He has revealed.

Craver VII said...

I have to take part of that back. I did not mean that I had absolutely uninterrupted conversations. I meant that I was able to enjoy dialog without having to talk over a couple of kids incessantly bleating, "Dad. Dad. Dad..."

For now... said...

Tell me about the fancy meals and tasty desserts!!!!

Craver VII said...

The meals were not any better than Mrs. Craver's. Her cooking is the best!! But the place settings that included a whole bunch of silverware, so you had to choose which pieces you were supposed to use first. If we had pie with dessert, they made it pretty because instead of a dallop of whipped cream, it was a fancy ruffled design with some kind of leaves or green junk that you're not supposed to eat, but it looked real special!

L.L. Barkat said...

When the Craver's away, the moms will play. As Martin always says, Let that be a lesson to you.

(though I personally appreciated the chance to LAUGH!)