Great discussion on that last post, people! I appreciate all the interaction, and it is especially cool because it was a friendly and positive conversation even though it was not comprised exclusively of yea-sayers. That seems to me to be a rare thing, so I love that you all were decent and respectful to each other. Sah-WEEEET! :-) Here's my two cents:
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God is real, and He is Holy. We are real, but we are not holy. :-( That's a problem, because it causes us to be separated from God and we suffer from a multitude of consequences, including death and a spiritual "dead-ness" that incapacitates us from truly knowing God.
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The people who know and love God and receive His love are not necessarily smarter or kinder or more worthy in any way, shape or form than anybody else. God, as an act of grace (which is undeserved by definition) has chosen to save some. (Yes, it's unfair. But not because of who isn't going to be saved... it's unfair because no one at all deserves to be saved.)
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The Lord gives life to whomever He wishes through the manner He has chosen (exclusively through Jesus), just as He has revealed (the Scriptures). His children may not agree on each and every detail, but none of us are the reference point... only God is.
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Telling people about a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ (the gospel) is compared to a farmer scattering seed like they used to do long ago in the Mediterranean region. The sower does not cause germination, but trusts the Lord to bring life to some, knowing that some seed will not grow to fruition. That being said... Lynet (plus anyone else viewing silently), I'm thrilled that you've come to visit. But I hope you don't expect me to try to force a change in your belief system by arguing. Ultimately, it is God who changes our beliefs. And so, it is my prayer that He draws you to Himself, and that your name would be inscribed in the book of life.
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Meanwhile, you're welcome to participate in any of the strange and delightful conversations we encounter here, be it wheelbarrows, tree rings, or Elvis sandwiches...
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16 comments:
Wow, first up. Craver - thanks for spurring such provocative and interesting discussions. You're the master at this. I wanted to comment on your last post but there were many good voices ...so I just sat back and enjoyed listening in.
If I may add just one point, Lynet said
"My morality starts with the idea that human happiness and fulfilment are good things that we should work towards, all together."
Actually, what's interesting is that in one way, Lynet's morality isn't so different from my own. I believe that pursuing happiness and fulfillment is a prime motive for our lives on earth. In fact, God commands us to do so by finding joy in the One who is the Source of all joy. Our sin is that we find our joy in all kinds of temporal,limited and base things when we're meant to find it first and foremost in Jesus Christ.
Do you ever post on Elvis imitation sandwiches?
I love peanut butter and bannana sandwiches
I like peanut butter and banana sandwiches, because the banana keeps the peanut butter from sticking to the roof of your mouth.
I love buttermilk. I wonder how long we can keep this one going. ;)
When I was a kid a neighbor used to make peanut butter and bacon sandwiches on an english muffin, now that was good!!
Let's see who should I be this time?
Just call me A.
(really Craver, it's me, your friend from nsc!)
I wonder if it is always bad to argue, or if there is a place for it. Now, maybe "argue" is too loaded a word because it implies unkindness. On the other hand, I've been enchanted by the Jewish tradition of "arguing" the scriptures. Iron sharpening iron, I think. One of the best descriptions of this process, and its wonderful possibilities, is in Judith Kunst's The Burning Word.
(Oh, and I do agree however that God is the one who woos us... even if it be through argument. :)
ESI, that was a gracious compliment, but in all fairness, it must be deflected to the high caliber of the folks leaving comments, which includes yourself. I am grateful to be friends with y’all.
Jazzycat, Halfmom, Stacy, and A, you guys are making me hungry, but even just TALKING about it is bad for your cholesterol.
LL, sure, a good debate has potential for benefits, but it is my opinion that time and place are key factors. So, I will observe and participate in debates once in a while, but if one chooses to keep things relatively light on their blog (like I have) it’s okay. There will surely be more venues for other, more weighty exchanges.
I wonder what the elements of a good argument would be. Perhaps a sense of fair play, a respect for truth, and one must not disregard the laws of logic…
Ooh, I got stuck on the peanut butter, bacon and English muffin sandwiches and totally missed the profound thing LL said...
Really, peanut butter and bacon? My dad used to eat grape jelly mixed in his macaroni and cheese and I thought that was odd...
yes, I'm sure there's a sick joke in the traffic/mack truck somewhere - and given time, you will come up with it!
Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm not crazy about peanut butter. In fact, don't like it at all.
A good ham sandwich is more my thing. "Pile on the ham!"
The Nielsen family tradition is a PB and honey with sliced cheeze!
Thankfully I was just grafted into the family and not a Nielsen by birth *gagging*
"His children may not agree on each and every detail, but none of us are the reference point... only God is."
Well put, Craver!
ES,
You said, "I believe that pursuing happiness and fulfillment is a prime motive for our lives on earth. In fact, God commands us to do so by finding joy in the One who is the Source of all joy."
Yet God instructs us, "1 Corinthians 10:31
Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."
I think that bringing glory to God should be our primary aim.
Ah, yes. (To your comment above, Craver.) The discernment factor. So sometimes it is good to "argue" and sometimes it is good to be silent. How we decide cannot be a simple matter I suppose!
And I like your idea about the rules of engagement for an argument. Maybe empathy is another good thing to add.
Lynet (plus anyone else viewing silently), I'm thrilled that you've come to visit. But I hope you don't expect me to try to force a change in your belief system by arguing. Ultimately, it is God who changes our beliefs.
Thankyou for the welcome! And okay, sure, I'll accept that that's the way you view things. Obviously it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but, hey.
Actually, what's interesting is that in one way, Lynet's morality isn't so different from my own. I believe that pursuing happiness and fulfillment is a prime motive for our lives on earth.
I'm glad. I'm glad because that means that here on Earth, at least, we have some of the same goals.
Nice talking with you all.
Spaghettipie, grape jelly w/mac & cheese… Yes, it sounds odd, but I’ll try anything once (except balut).
Halfmom is making a reference to a silly comment I left her.
Hey, Just Journaling, do I know you? Right now, I can’t remember whether you told me before, but if you did, can you drop me an email? If you didn’t, that’s fine; I can respect that. It’s okay if you don’t like peanut butter… more for me.
“Just grafted,” Eve? Embrace your destiny.
One of my all-time favorite verses is Psalm 37:4: “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.”
Lady L.L.,
Arguing-allowable
Bickering-bad
Comments-carefully controlled
Lady Lynet, I read a math joke this morning and thought of you. As a schoolboy, I couldn’t stand math. These days, I understand how to apply some things better and as I explain it to my kids, I find myself saying things like, “This is good stuff!”
Craver, don't you just love mysteries? No, I never sent you an email.
Just Journaling:
:-(
'Never been a big fan of mysteries, unless they're of the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle variety. (sigh)
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